Cory Malles Obituary, Stephanie Williams Obituary 2021, Villa Park Police Activity Today, St Michaels Oyster Festival 2021, How To Make A Wire Christmas Tree Frame, Articles OTHER

Thank you Bill ! With proper shot placement, I can make my .22 a rock star. The issue is the 9mm one penetrated which resulted in through and through shots. There are other similar handgun calibers, such as the .44 Special and the .45 Colt, and of course, the .357 SIG and 10mm Auto are Its not our opinion that makes us right. Beats. Wouldnt waste my money on it. Reality. And I am surprised that this was not mentioned. I prefer 45 revolvers. Let us know your thoughts in the comments below! Now call me a troll as I suspect you may be in love with your clunky Glock and .9mm round. The 9mm is being adopted by military and law enforcement due to its higher capacity and lower price, as well as the reduced recoil which increases accuracy for many who find the .45 a bit much to handle. Core, you touch on something that I have often thought about. A century? I shot 8 watermelons, 4 for each gun. So, the answer is simple, right? That said today I only carry my 5th gen Glock 19. Everything from grip, shooting stance, limp wrist-ing and recoil spring pressure was examined. Cant get into why I know this but but Im retired from the Government. Copyright 2023 Police1. knows the sound of a 9m they may say o well Ill chance it but a 40 cal. A 7.6225 is venerated as so amazing by PPsh humpers. The FBI has made a pragmatic decision that the 147 grain 9mm bullet is the best bullet for its agents because it allows for more rounds in the handgun. Fire Rate: 850 rounds/minute. As might be expected, larger-diameter bullets produce more devastating wound cavities and have a greater likelihood of striking vital organs. Officially last year it was announced that DoD intends to move to hollowpoint ammunition with this new MHS gun (whichever one ends up winning the contract). The military is basing their decisions on dollars not dependability not the servicemans life! Durys Gun Shop has served San Antonio and the South Texas region for half a century. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. .40 S&W I carry 180 grain HP. Copyright 2023 It enables struggling shooters to attain better weapon control/shot placement, and permits skilled shooters to be faster and more accurate. I have a rock island arms 1911 45, a Walther p22 22cal., A heritage rough rider 22 6 inch barrel. Following the incident, significant changes were made to the firepower carried by agents, the body armor they wore and the incident response training they received. I think it maybe a case of, its better to wound the enemy, than to kill him. Practice, practice, practice. Secondly, if you you tube ballistic testing of the 9mm and 45acp, lets say using Federal HSTs you will see that the 9mm round is more than capable and every bit as functional as the 45 in getting the job done. However, in early 2015 the door was cracked open, allowing them to choose Glock 19's (chambered in 9mm) instead of their larger counterpart. True, Or not? The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds. Your tax-deductible donation will directly support nonprofit journalism on gun violence and its effects on our communities. Indeed, physiological factors play a very small part in rapid incapacitation of a target. They should provide officers who can control the larger weapons a choice about which pistol they are permitted to carry. You could smell the gunpowder. In a statement, the FBI said he used a modified an SKS , the predecessor to the AK-47 which shoots the same bullets. I just had to get my 2 cents in. Head on over to the Concealed Carry Podcast for great audio content. Episode 424 is the perfect companion to this post because we discuss caliber and it's relation to hit factor! and their caregivers describe a lifetime of chronic pain, repeated surgeries years after being shot, and challenges to everyday living that come from losing parts of vital organs, like a woman who has to buy her son, We are currently looking for shooting survivors to discuss their experience and their recovery. I much prefer the 45 acp and have used it on game from deer to moose and it always was my go to gun. Never had a jam up firing many different kinds of ammo. It has something to do with occasions where they might carry concealed: Since last year, MARSOC has purchased and fielded 1,654 Glock 19s because Raiders needed a reliable secondary weapon that could be used for both a concealed carry profile and a low-visibility profile, and having one approved pistol for all special operators saves money, he said. People have walked off from head shot wounds from the venerable .45, .38 mag, etc. The .9mm, took3 rounds to the chest and he never even paused. Patrick states that since vital organs are located deep within the body, it should be obvious that to ignore penetration and permanent cavity is to ignore the only proven means of damaging or disrupting vital organs. Remember it is massive blood loss that causes circulatory collapse. Sawed-off Ammo Type: 12 gauge. We look forward to serving you. Most self-defense shootings take place inside 20 feet and are over in seconds; if Im out in public and shooting beyond that distance, itll probably be tough to sell as self-defense to a judge and/or jury anyway. Anyone using the term bullets to discuss weapon capacity knows little about firearms and has no business writing policy.on them. During the shootout, Special Agent Jerry Dove fired a lightweight, high-velocity 9mm round that struck murder/armored car robbery suspect Michael Lee Platt in the upper right arm. I shot Master for a while. By submitting your information, you agree to be contacted by the selected vendor(s) Regards Jim, Sorry for the typos are you speak to text because I cant text like my child. There is enough blood within the brain at any time to support conscious, voluntary action for 10 to 15 seconds even in the event of the destruction of the heart itself. WebAnswer (1 of 16): It does vary, but most of the time a 5.56mm rifle cartridge will have much more destructive potential than a .45 caliber pistol load does. I dont want a light fast bullet that will over penetrate and possibly injure or kill an unintended. Cool story for real. Mamma and papa went getting along I guess. Their explanation (other than increasing ammo capacity): bullet technology has come a long way since 1986. Of course, not being in the military, or law enforcement, my goal is no collateral damage! The Human Torso Test. Then they changed to .40S&W (once they realized how difficult it was for some agents to handle). Doctors later determined that this round was not survivable. I was in the military and was law enforcement. In the technical language of ballistics engineers, the standard unit of measurement for a bullets mass is grains of metal, and depending on the manufacturer, a .7.62. can weigh in at 125 grains. But good luck with and please enjoy the new Glock! So its all about what fits they individual and what they are comfortable and accurate with. Thats because the 7.62 is almost twice as massive as a .223. Wow now this argument of 9 mm verses 45 acp is stupid. Everyone talking about knock down power verses speed seems like. Why arent both so much better than .223? Oh and dont give me the garbage about 9mm has come a long way since its inception. of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the bullet. I have a Glock19 and Glock23 chambered .40S&W and that is a great round to. The 45 is the preferred for close combat, Common sense will tell you that if you are being overrun! The pistol with speed loaders will get me to the riffels then game over if not over yet. Its disturbing to me that we give up performance for comfort. But ideally you need a brush rifle. This is why officers typically carry as many shoulder weapons as possible in their cars. Did you know that Durys has been in business since 1959? Mabe you are just faster and things work out like the movies. For this reason, some dismiss magnum rounds altogether and sing the praises of the S&W .40 round, which supposedly combines the best features of the .45 ACP and the 9mm. According to the song the battle for New Orleans, canonbalks were fired from alligator mouths which showed resourcefulness. I sure do love 45acp though. Riley has trained extensively under instructors such as: Rob Leatham, Mike Seeklander, Tim Herron, Scott Jedlinski, Matt Little, Kyle Lamb, Dave Spaulding, Jeff Gonzales, Bill Blowers, Chuck Pressburg, and others, amassing many hundreds of hours of formal shooting and tactics training. In September 2014, LooserRounds posted an article titled FBI Training Division Justifies 9mm Caliber Selection. Because you are making a decision based on the fact that something (9mm) didnt work. Now as far as the technology of rounds go, technology has improved for all of the basic calibers including 45 so there is no advantage there for the 9. Tissue inside the human body is remarkably elastic, even vital organs such as the lungs, bowels or circulatory system. Just saying. Also the .45 will ring your ears like hell and most self defense scenarios are you are not wearing ear protection. I wonder what the future holds? Our team, our mission, our partners, and more. Both are great calibers. Our only requirement is that you give Ammo.com appropriate credit by linking to the original article. The comparisons that I have seen conducted under those conditions seem to be pretty equal. The 9 has more A but the M of the 45 has more than enough to overtake the 9 even the newer ones. Do give the Walther PPS serious consideration. Thats what I pack in the deep woods. I believe the 45 ACP would scare many and they would rarely shoot to their capability. Witnessed it first hand. Police, f.b.i., train. For me the argument is how the pistol or revolver feels in my hand and how accurately can shoot it. The saga will never end. But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. That much is true. Marine Force Recon Vietnam Vet. We are currently looking for shooting survivors to discuss their experience and their recovery. From my time in the USMC, I saw a certain population fall in love with the 9mm bc of its easier to handle recoil. Which is better? Thanks for your comment! A good hit from either will wreck an adversarys day . 15 round mag of 9mm FMJ unless you hit the heart better plan on using 3 to 5 rounds to stop the person. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. the statement that a 9mm can carry more bullets. True. With bigger bullets, you will make bigger holes.. I do believe that whether its a 9 mm or 45 caliber youve got to be accurate with the placement of that round otherwise youre just wasting shots. Indeed, you and bystanders in the immediate area are much more endangered by rounds that do not penetrate sufficiently than by rounds that overpenetrate.. Vital organs sit deep within the human body, so penetration and permanent cavity volume are important factors. Even the Scout Snipers are still using the .308, whereas superior platforms are using .300 Win Mags and .338 Lapuas. Liver problems can also be caused by a variety of factors that damage the liver, such as viruses, alcohol use and obesity. Handgun cartridges just dont do that. American troops in the Philippines discovered this important distinction in the late 19th century. None used a big cal but all targets were immediately incapacitated and all targets were within 1foot to 20 feet away. In the woods my .45 r1 with cast is what I carry. But are we supposed to believe the difference in air resistance between a 9mm and a .45ACP is that great? I know a LEO that works in Mendocino County CA. To make a long govt document short, the armor would likely stop a 9mm with a few bruises. Thanks for reading and applying some little used common sense to the debate. 7.62 isn't pistol ammunition though. EVER! Im an athletic guy so handling the recoil is not too bad. U.S. Navy SeaBees m60 & 45 caliber was my issue. The bear was shot in the head through the screen.it was a one shot stop but needed another round to finish him off. Sign up now to get our latest stories and eye-opening briefings. What we do know, however, is that when most people are shot, they fall down. However, others say that the lowly .22 LR has the best stopping power, since it stays in the targets body and bounces around, shredding arteries and punching holes in internal organs. Shooting another person is only done with the intention to, at the very least, incapacitate the subject to protect the physical safety of others. Last summer had a large male black bear tried to enter my camper. Over time, conditions that damage the liver can lead to scarring (cirrhosis), which can lead to liver failure, a life-threatening condition. Knock down power. If it works for our troops no matter where it is made thats the one we want. Just as in the case of the military, my agencies biggest determining factors for this decision were not anything to do with the performance of the rounds or the effectiveness for the safety of the officer. We cannot recreate these or even reliably use the data. Youd be much better served with HOT 357 mag loads or a 44mag. I have a Ruger American 9 mm full size and its twin in a 45 caliber, I will say yes the 45 caliber is a larger round with more in a way push behind it, but I totally agree with the proper placement of that round when firing is the deciding factor. He kicked in the door and she was able to disarm him ( He was lying next to the bathroom door. Im in the process to actually buy one. Take this for what its worth. All righty then, I started with 38 caliber revolvers in the early 70s, 53 yrs later, since few people carry revolvers, capacity, I have bounced back and forth and keep ammo for both 9mm and 45. Has the Marine Corp's choice to transition from 45 ACP to 9mm duty pistols settled the debate on which caliber is better? I dont know if the recoil might throw me off. Still, I think when we're talking about pistol caliber handguns, it's pretty hard to measure any substantial accuracy differences when we're rarely shooting at distances greater than 15-25 yards if that. Episode 424 is the perfect companion to this post because we discuss caliber and it's relation to hit factor! I am just way more comfortable with the way it shoots. by Kyle Mizokami Key Point: These are the bullets that will do the Remember, people dont have health bars. I agree with your bad guy statement, but when I was training to become a Paramedic and obviously most of the training was done in the ER so we definitely saw damner everything you can imagine especially a lot of gunshot incidents and what I can tell you was that we were able to save and keep more bad guys alive who were shot with 9mm multiple times than those who had been shot 1-2 times with a .45. You shoot when you can, at the place you most want. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. That said a handgun is only used to get to a bigger firearm..it was never ment to be used in longer than 30 meter engagements. If these shootings have something in common, it is each and every one is different. It was by far the easiest serviced pistol in the field, go ahead and get the lighter frame lighter weight ceramic /plastic and all that junk its fine as long as youre in a urban environment. WOUND BALLISTICS - Motion and Effects of Projectiles in the How higher speed, greater mass, and more surface area increase the damage that rounds can do to human bodies. People like the OP of the TIFU have been shot right above their heart and lungs, with .223 and despite a nasty, nasty exit wound and the shot placement, walked it off. Riley Bowman is the Director of Training at ConcealedCarry.com and the Host of the Concealed Carry Podcast. Ballistic gel is a joke and not a valid substitute for actual flesh and bone. After all, its SIZE thats everything, right? You are up close and personal with this guy. Whether fear or anger, adrenaline can make one shake. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. I personally dont find much difference in recoil between a compact 9mm and compact .40 S&W; but I recognize and am sympathetic to other shooters who do. For a tommygun, I'd probably go with 1d8 base damage, +1 magical weapon bonus to represent penetration and damage, and the ability to make a cone area attack (save or take damage). 1SGT. And let us not forget the adrenaline factor. Fragmentation cannot reliably be counted upon with handgun wounds because of the comparatively low velocity of handgun rounds. I notice one parameter that seems to be ignored. Taurus 45 Two shots were within an inch of his heart. Most of the ballistic testing I have seen comparing the penetration of various bullets and calibers would suggest that generally, a .45ACP and 9mm are both quite comparable as far as penetration is concerned. As to which will stop a human fasterhavent a darn clue. For almost 17 years that I carred a badge I carried a S&W 357 on a K frame. People have died from .22 LR in one shot. Riley, love your artical. What do you Think of the S&W Shield? Hunt! About 5 yrs ago I read a document comparing the damage to a human body wearing, at the time, state of the art LE body armor. Watch the .22 and the .223 tested on blocks of ballistics gelatin, a material that mimics human tissue. I have used the 1911 govt. I even tried to do the same test with my Tuger SR9 compact and it was a worse outcome than the Walther. With that in mind The most lead I can force through the air, the better. One person might be able to control themselves and squeeze off a headshot. 3, both hemolymph ACP and AKP activities of P. clarkii were significantly decreased in the 30 and 50 mg/L groups compared to the control (P < 0.01).Similarly, PO activity also exhibited a significant reduction in the 30 mg/L group (P < 0.05) and the 50 mg/L group (P < 0.01), respectively.However, LZM activity showed a significant increase They are fine weapons and are certainly capable as a sidearm. So dont ask. Can someone comment on this? cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. 9mm Luger offers greater magazine capacity and less recoil/more weapon control at a lower cost. Experiences on the streets say otherwise. He taught criminal law/procedure at the FBI Academy. While, I understand that budgetary issues are a factor they should not come before the safety of the officer pr soldier. John Michael Callahan served in law enforcement for 44 years. They said, ja, the 9mm kills people just fine, as long as you use it the way anyone with any sense uses a pistol caliber. Theres also the reaction of a surprise. Once you run out of rounds, youre done. But you still want the best caliber possible, because while people are disposed to fall down when shot, not every target does. Take it this way, someone shoots at you, you at them. Because of the dynamic and chaotic nature of officer-involved shootings, officers are trained to shoot at center mass of an assailants torso from whatever side/angle of the torso that presents itself. WebYes, definitely. In one case study of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the The only way to ensure immediate incapacitation is to shoot the adversary in the brain or upper spinal cord (i.e., central nervous system). ), and I can buy twice the ammo and get twice the practice. Because size is king? round, you can see all three effects. They argue that the 9mm round has more penetrating power because the round faces less air resistance on its nose as it flies through the air. What kind of insane non-scientific reasoning is this? That is those of us that has and carries guns. One hit with any caliber has more stopping power than 100 misses with any caliber, type bullet or inherent accuracy. He carries a nine personally currently because of the round capacity but in combat 45. The 9mm is a typical government one-size-fits-all solution. If, God forbid, you are ever in a situation where you are required to use your handgun, there is, to put it mildly, a great deal at stake. Repeat over and over, and keep doing so even after proficiency is achieved. I have yet to see any really legit fair and unbiased comparison of the 9mm and 45acp calibers. The 9 mm and the round for the 9 mm is by far the cheaper not the better choice!