And then later on, how was he able to conceal his mental state so successfully? It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. I wish the Harris and Klebold parents were rotting in prison right now as a lesson to parents that wash their hands of it and say "not my problem. VOTN, they used to think blood-letting and reading the bumps on people's head was science, too. His parents didnt understand the full extent of it, but high school wasnt turning out to be a kind place for him. The perpetrator often has faced peer or social rejection, endured bullying, has anger about the bullying, and lacks the social or coping skills to deal with these issues. It was weird. None of us knows exactly how the brain works. Bedwetting, firesetting and cruelty to animals. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. Both parents were gentle, educated people, who named their two boys after romantic poets x97 Dylan Thomas and Lord Byron x97 seemed to have given Dylan the message that so many of us recognize from our own childhoods: high school is hard, it will get better from here, wex92re here for you, we promise. Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. They crowned a queen, they crowned a king. Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. She hyped it up as a must see and an insight to what really happened. Sue would later find out through his journals though that by sophomore year he was battling depression and suicidal thoughts. Sue Klebold is the mother of Dylan Klebold. (They said no.) While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. Brown can . It is absolutely the parents vault. [quote]Did Harris or Klebold have any siblings? Gotta go. For a couple reasons. For a couple reasons. Dylan Klebold was interviewed inside the Columbine libary on January 30th, 1998. Eric also said he had purposefully not been spending much time with his family so there wouldn't be much "bonding" leading up to April 20 since that would make it harder to do. "some manipulate, like my parents.". As Dylan entered adolescence, he became a bit more complicated. Sue (as both she and her son share the same surname, Im going to refer to them by their first names for the sake of clarity) begins by emphasizing that she and her husband, Tom, truly had no idea what Dylan was planning. I encourage you to study the footage and reach out to others in the comments. The goal seems to have been parental appeasement. I guess it's my generation. They are particularly good at it. Harris was a sociopath. I'm sorry, all right. R71, having seen Patti Lupone shit all over Gypsy, I can assure you, there's a Hell. What happened to them? But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, dressed in trench coats, began shooting fellow students outside Columbine High School, located in a suburb south of Denver. According to a report in the Denver Rocky Mountain News, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office was supplied with evidence a year ago that "Eric . Am I supposed to be impressed by dates, VOTN? Eric says if either the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.". We didnt realize it until after the end, Tom Klebold said. This week, one of them, Sue Klebold mother of shooter Dylan Klebold - breaks the silence with ABC's Diane Sawyer. Harris' family eventually settled in Colorado in 1992. If a kid is screaming endlessy, you remove the child from the area. What I am saying is that the cause is something deeper and more primal than "society.". Sue had no idea it was a life-and-death situation. She has spent the last 15 years excavating every detail of her family life, and trying to understand the crucial intersection . To be clear, I'm sure the Klebold's obviously loved their children, but reading Dylan's writings, there was more going on in that home that Sue would say today. I'd add that Tom watched the basement tapes and even after seeing them first-hand, stated something to the effect of 'see he didn't want to do it' (I'm paraphrasing here). Is that correct? Hail Reb &VoDka!!!!!!!!! We relate. Eric's parents were both born in Colorado but while his father Wayne Harris was working in the Air Force as a transport pilot, Wayne held 11 different positions at six different bases in Ohio . (p. 277). multiple newspapers and media outlets in the days after reported dylan and his father having the kind of relationship where, when dylan would come home from school, they would share a snack and read the sports section of the newspaper together. Isaiah's father said. Parenting is the ultimate denial of responsibility because it is always the OTHER PARENT'S FAULT. While Id argue that violent media doesnt cause people to act violently if theyre not otherwise inclined, it seems Dylan was vulnerable to the violent games and movies he consumed outside the home. Cullen, who covered the story for the former Rocky Mountain News, seems to take the view that the Harrises were willfully ignorant of their son's personality (and Major Wayne Harris honestly seems like a bit of a tyrant), and the Klebolds were just clueless. 'Toxic culture' blamedHe was hopeless. And he's not pulling a lot of punches about the media saturation either, and doesn't let the Rocky off the hook. "How do you teach someone to have emotions or empathy?". Were not qualified to sort this out. As a reporter scribbled, Hooker reconsidered. We are ich bin auslander! [quote]You have to ignore a whole lot of what is wrong with society to limit it to a bogus discussion about how some people have "brains wired differently." Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, on April 9, 1981. The Klebolds attorney, Gary Lozow, told The Denver Post the Klebolds had no plans to grant any other interviews. May 15, 2004. I got picked on a lot and dealt with a lot of shit from the "jocks" and the "cool kids." Tom seemed in complete denial. Growing up in Ohio, she had a mixed religious upbringing with her Christian mother and Jewish father. They haff come here to haff a nice dinner und a nice time. We've hardly seen him & attempts to engage him have been futile. There are also certain traits that lead to a school itself being more or less at risk for a shooting event: an inflexible culture, inequitable discipline, tolerance for disrespectful behavior, and a code of silence (p. 315). This girl went on screaming for full minutes at a time - nobody came out of the house and told her to be quiet. There's a blurb on the back flap comparing the book to Helter Skelter and In Cold Blood, and I thought that was just kind of typical PR purple mumbo-jumbo. All the bullying stuff is bullshit. Dylan ended the shooting which saw 13 . It didn't help matters any that our father was an abusive asshole. There is every likelihood that not a single teacher at Columbine cared enough to pay attention or, even if they did, knew enough to know what danger signs to look for. New York: Crown. Byron indicated the last time he saw Dylan was on their father's birthday. Boston: Pearson. They will live on forever !!!!!!!! ", Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". You shouldn't attack people for the actions of their offspring. I've met members in USA, UK, Norway, Sweden,Germany,Brazil, Chile, Ireland, India and the Bahamas. LITTLETON, Colo. Just 15 people attended the funeral of Columbine High School killer Dylan Klebold on Saturday two ministers, eleven mourners and two anguished parents wondering where they'd gone . They opened fire on students and teachers at Columbine High School in Columbine, Colorado, on the Nazi leader's birthday in 1999, killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 23 people before taking their own lives. Not only would that give us someone to blame (someone still living, unlike Eric and Dylan, who turned their guns on themselves), but it would also allow the psychic distance between x93usx94 and x93themx94 that frightened humans crave. He injured 2 students before his gun jammed and he was arrested. Introduction: My name is Golda Nolan II, I am a thoughtful, clever, cute, jolly, brave, powerful, splendid person who loves writing and wants to share my knowledge and understanding with you. We just share a brotherhood of admiration and belief in R &V. We sympathize with each other. The pair . on Thursday, April 23rd, 2020 There are a lot more R&V followers out there than you would think. The oblivious parents in Target or sitting inside their houses listening to their kids having a meltdown and completely ignoring it. These people do have emotions. It was very easy to read despite being a difficult topic. Okay, well, first of all, gifted programs don't monitor shit. I'm glad Oprah isn't going to help this man promote his book. in CJ 725, Tagged: columbine, mass murderer, mental illness, school shootings. Unfortunately, we only have her word today as to what went on in the home. Over time, they became increasingly close, hanging out by often going out bowling, carpooling and playing the video game Doom over a private server connected to their personal computers. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. Criminal behavior: a psychological approach. I go into Target and there are children shrieking like banshees in the shopping cart and the mother never says "Be quite. Born: 4-9-1981. Eric: "Susan, sorry. It just seems all a bit odd. AAron Ontiveroz/the Denver Post via Getty Images Even after he broke into a car and stole stuff, there was no monitoring of his time spent making pipe bombs or firing guns or playing video games that glorified killing. The school shooting took place on April 20, 1999 at . How can that not bother you? Im looking for possible warning signs of trouble between these two individuals and their father-son relationship. The interview is set to air on "20/20" this Friday, coinciding with . These two need to be gutted and hung out for the vultures. His parents didnt yet know to monitor his internet usage. But 936 pages of evidence taken from the killers' homes and cars were released by the Jefferson County Sheriff's office on Thursday, and a notebook kept by Eric's father . Asking how instead of why allows us to frame the descent into self-destructive behavior as the process that it is. I can handle them "spending too much time on the killers", but unfortunately I recognize there are too many whackjobs in this country who would just see it as glorification. I must say, that rings true to me Id personally say it was because I was so self-sufficient and trustworthy as a child that my parents had no idea when I was going through (relative) difficulty in adolescence. Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylan's best friend. I know my mom and dad will be just like.. just fucking shocked beyond belief. . They do not have a moral center that can be reached. Bit of a warning, it's a PDF file. Eric Harris was an American murderer from Wichita, Kansas. Empathy; not so much. we only know so much and there have probably been incidents we dont know about. A few weeks ago, I reviewed Sue Klebolds memoir A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy, about her experience as the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the Columbine High School shooters. It's still about management. Maybe that's what I find so scary about the whole thing, that there are people who walk around, every day, and are completely lacking in everything that I thinks makes us human. Dylan Klebold had written about a "god-like figure" dressed in black, brutally gunning down fraternity-type boys. He didn't even say hi to Tom or ask how he was. Not to cure it, to manage it. For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.. crap, that is what I think of. I don't know if the Klebolds had any inkling at all, but I really don't get the Harrises. Of course there is no formula for determining whether someone will turn out to be a school shooter, but I definitely agree with the sentiment that it is important to look at how these things happen. Bratty kids in Target are not mass murderers in the making. He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger. But they sure jumped at the chance to be on Oprah! Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. When it came to intervention, these people had no idea what they should have been doing. We are not there yet. One young doctor said, "I don't know if you can teach compassion, but you surely can teach the opposite! His parents were both born in Colorado but while he was working in the Air Force as a transport pilot, Wayne Harris held 11 . In the vacuum of actual news, they just start over again. I don't believe that Tom and Sue were annoying parents. 5. Tom had a huge hobby for fixing up BMW's. It may have hurt him. Press J to jump to the feed. Goodbye. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds . Ericx92s parents, too, did what parents do. [quote]I think he made only one phone call to a recruiter. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. What is something of a mystery to me is why things reached the point they did. x93Thatx94 happened to x93themx94 because they were bad parents, we could tell ourselves. Similiarly if a child is screaming at playmates and/or siblings and will not stop, you have to move in and take control of the situation. Their teenage son, along with his classmate Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, on April 20, 1999. By David Brooks. WOuldn't one of the friends have felt him a little bit off, at the least? His parents raised their two boys as many others did, following that close-knit, suburban family model (p. 62). Jesus, what a loathsome pair of people. They may show cruelty to animals, or alternatively a high degree of affection or attachment to animals. And even then we may never uncover the truth. No scientist knows this absolutely. Dylanx92s father worked from home and saw his son every day. x93There is no comfort for parents here,x94 Cullen told me yesterday. It wasnt accepted.. I just don't get it. "Psychopaths don't feel guilty because they are blind to guilt," Ochberg said. If anything, they seemed to hate everyone equally. I read a lot of opinions on Eric and his dad Wayne. Even if they had friends doesn;t mean they were popular or well-liked generally. one of their coworkers at blackjack (again, cannot remember the name; most of this is just top of my head knowledge but it was a girl) said that dylan was not close with his dad and even disliked him (something to that effect), also in the 11k. "This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain.". [quote]I can't believe Oprah canceled her Columbine show today. Focus on the mental. Eric and Dylan worked extremely hard to conceal their machinations. His parents were Wayne and Katherine. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. He's wearing black BDUs (military-style pants) tucked into military-style boots. . Join date : 2014-02-11. Now everybody expects the schools to fix everything for them. crap. As a teen, Dylans aversion to embarrassment became more severe, his self-consciousness more pointed. She went to Ohio State University where she dated Tom. Or if they are, it's not because they're running amok in the store. They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). Who is "limiting" the discussion to the brain? Just know I'm going to a better place. As his father's career pulled him out of schools and away from friends leaving Plattsburgh, New York in 1993 for Colorado Harris increasingly retreated into the computer and . It would drive me insane to have my kids behave like that, but some people are utterly oblivious to the cacaphony and strife being caused by their children. Unfortunately, Eric was able to channel Dylans experiences and psychology into a violent act that would take not only his own life, but the lives of many others. I couldn't put the book down, and even though I thought I knew the ending of the story, or at least most of it, I have to admit, the last couple of chapters, specifically the one detailing the Basement Tapes, and the one about what had happened leading up to Harris and Klebold committing suicide were fucking frightening. Her recounting of the details of Dylans life, combined with what we learned about school shooters in general, paints a picture of how this particular child ended up committing one of the most infamous massacres in American history. Children learn psychopathy from their parents (e.g., the Bushes). His parents were Wayne Harris and his wife Katherine Ann Poole. Most of you posters here are complete idiots and voiceofthenight is the biggest moron of them all. Theres to me a level of skepticism we have usually of course with the scraps of info we had, but also the slight weirdness/more to it/unreliability when it came down to this particular topic, Find it interesting Tom would say he was Dylans best friend. These incidents happen because the majority of people choose to look the other way if a kid seems a little off. Harris was excelling in classes in the year leading up to the murders. End of story. From many angles, Dylan was the average kid any parent would want. She's spent years excavating every detail of her family life, trying to understand what she could have done to prevent her son's violence. I found this thred on accident and had to comment. Yodack is a website that writes about many topics of interest to you, a blog that shares knowledge and insights useful to everyone in many fields. His father was a geophysicist and a mother worked with the disabled . She and the father lectured him, took away . What a twat. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold was the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history, . Plus the drug industry makes a profit. He was a sociopath and needed drugs and a really good psychiatrist. There was a documentary on Netflix or somewhere in which she t. He was also very close friends with the killers. ", Eric: (shrugs) "My parents might have made some mistakes that they weren't really aware of. Dylan also writes in his journal that. OSHKOSH, Wis. (WBAY) - A special event was held in Oshkosh Tuesday afternoon, where the mother Dylan Klebold, one of the two gunmen responsible for the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado . At the same time, the father must have believed that his son's future was still bright. That's why Dylan got one for Christmas 99, it was Tom's way of finding something to bond with with Dylan. The problem, Cullen concludes, was that there is almost nothing that can be done to help psychopaths. He was afraid Dylan might be involved. I still think it's easy to place blame on the parents within the context of what happened, but tons of kids are little miscreant assholes who commit petty shit like Eric & Dylan were doing. Im horrified, Dawn Anna, whose daughter Lauren Townsend was killed at Columbine, told The Associated Press. That doesn't mean that it's always successful. I don't think I can categorize Dylan's relationship with his parents as bad or good, because Dylan was incredibly disturbed teen and clearly had a skewed perception of reality. By. Adding to the tragedy: Six months after Hochhalter's wounding, her mother, Carla, took her own life. Attention was paid. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. You can't learn to feel if you don't. So he called me and offered to go to the school in hopes of negotiating with Dylan. Eric was born in Wichita, Kansas. OP is an idiot, laying the whole thing at the parents' door. His point is that "society" didn't have too much of anything to do with how Harris turned out--he was born that way. "Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting". There will always be apologists for the Harris parents who incredibly state that parents have no control over their children. That's the first thing. [quote]But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. The second of the Columbine killers, Dylan Klebold was a "born genius" who, despite a sensitive disposition, experienced explosions of rage (most often brought on by failure or humiliation,) suicidal tendencies, a disdain for the "zombie"-like human race, and a suggestibility upon which the psychopathic . When he heard reports of gunmen in trench coats rampaging through Columbine High, it's reported, that Thomas Klebold (the father of Dylan) contacted authorities, because he suspected his son might be involved and offered his help as a negotiator.. Sue received a number of letters from people whod gone to Columbine who were more surprised that a shooting hadnt happened sooner than that one had happened at all. Why does anyone think that parents know or care what their children do? COLUMBINE, pisode 3 : l'impact sur la socit, 3. Nothing taken care of that I needed him to do (like take care of the cats). Klebold, S. (2016). Of course, if the Klebolds and Harrises said they were ready to talk to the media, you can be sure they'd all scramble for the exclusive. Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit. German-American restaurant owner: "You vill not be a mass murderer!" Brooks said the Klebolds agreed to the interview after an exchange of e-mails initiated by Tom Klebold, who was angered by Brooks April 24 column.